Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed
[R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175415] So, 27 November 2005 16:43
Mart  
Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world

city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
politics. They can come in handy everyday!

The Patrician's relationships with the Guilds is an excellent way to
develop inter-personal skills, for example. Often, the best way to
reply to an annoying request (especially from acquaintances whom
you don't meet frequently) is an unconditional and enthusiastic
(the enthusiasm is important) "Yes!" followed by no action at all.
As the Patrician always shows us, it's hard to complain to someone
who has happily agreed to comply with your every whim. And, in any
case, people in general tend to forget this kind of thing quickly.

Of more limited usage but equally handy is Lord Vetinari's trademark
conversation finisher "Don't let me keep you". This works wonders in
uninteresting phonecalls, when you can use any ambient sound on
your speaker's side (TV, someone else walking in, music, etc.) to
gasp in polite shock "Oh, you're busy?! Don't let me keep you,
then, we'll keep talking tomorrow take care!".

I'm sure we all have, as we read DW novels, ended up looking at the
most mundane activities from Lord Vetinari's pragmatic point of view,
or thought about doing something "the Ankh-Morpork way". I know
I have. Haven't you?
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175465 ] So, 27 November 2005 22:31
Danny  
On 27 Nov 2005 07:43:17 -0800, "Mart" <gmarth [at] gmail.com>, wrote the following
stuff about [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed:

>Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
>city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
>politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>
<snip>
>
>Of more limited usage but equally handy is Lord Vetinari's trademark
>conversation finisher "Don't let me keep you". This works wonders in
>uninteresting phonecalls, when you can use any ambient sound on
> your speaker's side (TV, someone else walking in, music, etc.) to
>gasp in polite shock "Oh, you're busy?! Don't let me keep you,
>then, we'll keep talking tomorrow take care!".

Shirley it's "Don't let me detain you" which of course has the subtle
extra meaning for someone who maintains scorpion pits.

Then, of course, there's seeing someone who's waiting "momentarily".

Seeya. Danny.
--
E-Mail: Danny (at) grovers (dash) sa (dot) com
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175471 ] So, 27 November 2005 23:07
Rgemini  
Mart wrote:
> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>
<snip>

I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning
nothing at all.

Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
mean "No", but politely?

Rgemini, a sig-free zone
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175479 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 01:11
Puck  
Rgemini wrote:
> Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
> mean "No", but politely?

Sort of. It is considerred impolite in Japan to directly refuse a
reasonable-seeming request, so while there are no actual words that say yes
but mean no, they do try to imply a "no" without actually coming out and
saying it. I don't know how the conversation would go between two Japanese
people, but when I found myself in this situation, I got lots of "I see" and
"That is difficult" before I finally realized that he was trying to say
"Your request is impossible, you stupid gaijin" without actually saying it.

--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): "I am that merry wanderer of the night",
indeed! "I am that
giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and limb,
more like." -Neil Gaiman
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175481 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 01:18
bbottorff  
Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:

> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
>
> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>
> The Patrician's relationships with the Guilds is an excellent way to
> develop inter-personal skills, for example. Often, the best way to
> reply to an annoying request (especially from acquaintances whom
> you don't meet frequently) is an unconditional and enthusiastic
> (the enthusiasm is important) "Yes!" followed by no action at all.

I lived in a culture where that was quite common. It just irritates
people around you who aren't following the custom.

BTW, generally Vetinari doesn't lie so obviously... it would spoil his
aura. He's more likely to say "I shall look at that directly.", leaving
open the quesions of how he's going to look at it, when "directly" is,
or even if "directly" is a reference to time, or to technique.

> As the Patrician always shows us, it's hard to complain to someone
> who has happily agreed to comply with your every whim. And, in any
> case, people in general tend to forget this kind of thing quickly.

Not important stuff.
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175488 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 05:02
David Jensen  
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:11:55 -0500, in alt.fan.pratchett
"Puck" <Kormos.4 [at] osu.edu> wrote in
<dmdi0m$rer$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>:
>Rgemini wrote:
>> Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
>> mean "No", but politely?
>
>Sort of. It is considerred impolite in Japan to directly refuse a
>reasonable-seeming request, so while there are no actual words that say yes
>but mean no, they do try to imply a "no" without actually coming out and
>saying it. I don't know how the conversation would go between two Japanese
>people, but when I found myself in this situation, I got lots of "I see" and
>"That is difficult" before I finally realized that he was trying to say
>"Your request is impossible, you stupid gaijin" without actually saying it.

In American English, at least, 'okay' is wonderfully versatile. It can
mean 'yes, absolutely', or 'things are good', all the way to 'I have
heard exactly what you are telling me, but i'm not at all persuaded by
your lunacy."
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175491 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 06:52
Arthur Hagen  
David Jensen <david [at] dajensen-family.com> wrote:
>
> In American English, at least, 'okay' is wonderfully versatile. It can
> mean 'yes, absolutely', or 'things are good', all the way to 'I have
> heard exactly what you are telling me, but i'm not at all persuaded by
> your lunacy."

I prefer "Yah, betcha".

--
*Art
[I] Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175493 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 07:31
eero.suoranta  
Rgemini wrotei:

> Mart wrote:
> > Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
> > city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> > politics. They can come in handy everyday!
> >
> <snip>
>
> I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning
> nothing at all.
>
> Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
> mean "No", but politely?

But English has one too! It's "yes".
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #175500 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 11:11
Flesh-eating Dragon  
Rgemini wrote:
> Mart wrote:

>> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
>> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
>> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>>
> <snip>
>
> I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning nothing
> at all.

One minor flaw in _Night Watch_, in my opinion, is that someone *else*
uses Vetinari's highly idiomatic word for "excellent" (i.e.
"capital"). Should be reserved strictly for Havelock Vetinari, in
order to emphasise the uniqueness of his personality.

Adrian.
[R] Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176032 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 15:00
eero.suoranta  
Flesh-eating Dragon wrote:

> Rgemini wrote:
> > Mart wrote:
>
> >> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
> >> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> >> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
> >>
> > <snip>
> >
> > I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning nothing
> > at all.
>
> One minor flaw in _Night Watch_, in my opinion, is that someone *else*
> uses Vetinari's highly idiomatic word for "excellent" (i.e.
> "capital"). Should be reserved strictly for Havelock Vetinari, in
> order to emphasise the uniqueness of his personality.

Isn't "capital"* a word associated with upper class Brits? I think
Sherlock Holmes used it - at least in the BBC television series.

*In the meaning of "excellent"...
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176035 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 15:31
Mart  
Danny wrote:
<snip>
> Then, of course, there's seeing someone who's waiting "momentarily".

Now that we're mentioning that particular word from Vetinari's
vocabulary
and its usage in everyday life, I feel compelled to mention that Google

Groups kindly informs us that "Your message will be posted momentarily"
every time we post. How oddly appropriate.
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176048 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 17:25
Andrew Perry  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>The Patrician's relationships with the Guilds is an excellent way to
>>develop inter-personal skills, for example. Often, the best way to
>>reply to an annoying request (especially from acquaintances whom
>> you don't meet frequently) is an unconditional and enthusiastic
>>(the enthusiasm is important) "Yes!" followed by no action at all.
>
> BTW, generally Vetinari doesn't lie so obviously... it would spoil his
> aura. He's more likely to say "I shall look at that directly.", leaving
> open the quesions of how he's going to look at it, when "directly" is,
> or even if "directly" is a reference to time, or to technique.

....and, of course, whose side he shall be looking at it from. And who he
will decide has been wasting his time at the end of it all.
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176053 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 17:41
Graycat  
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:18:15 GMT, bbottorff [at] nomail.com (Boyd
Bottorff) jotted down:

>Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
>>
>> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
>> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>>
>> The Patrician's relationships with the Guilds is an excellent way to
>> develop inter-personal skills, for example. Often, the best way to
>> reply to an annoying request (especially from acquaintances whom
>> you don't meet frequently) is an unconditional and enthusiastic
>> (the enthusiasm is important) "Yes!" followed by no action at all.
>
>I lived in a culture where that was quite common. It just irritates
>people around you who aren't following the custom.
>
>BTW, generally Vetinari doesn't lie so obviously... it would spoil his
>aura. He's more likely to say "I shall look at that directly.", leaving
>open the quesions of how he's going to look at it, when "directly" is,
>or even if "directly" is a reference to time, or to technique.

Also, looking isn't fixing...

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html
Re: [I] Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176061 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 18:56
alec  
In article <1133159488.202865.286900 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
eero.suoranta [at] jtoy.inet.fi says...
>
> Rgemini wrotei:
>
> > Mart wrote:
> > > Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
> > > city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> > > politics. They can come in handy everyday!
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
> > I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning
> > nothing at all.
> >
> > Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
> > mean "No", but politely?
>
> But English has one too! It's "yes".

Which is why the Navy had a separate response "Aye Aye, Sir" which
explicitly acknowledges that an order has been given and received - and
with therefore presumably be obeyed. Likewise the Army's distinction
between "Roger" - message received - and "Roger Wilco" - message
received and will be obeyed.


--
[at] lec ©awley
http://www.livejournal.com/~randombler
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176068 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 19:33
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach David Jensen:

> In American English, at least, 'okay' is wonderfully
> versatile. It can mean 'yes, absolutely', or 'things are
> good', all the way to 'I have heard exactly what you are
> telling me, but i'm not at all persuaded by your lunacy."

The clue is in the length of the second vowel, I believe. The
word that means the latter is "okaaaay..."

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Hooray, Hooray, it's a wonderful day
For I have found my cow!
-"Where's My Cow?" (original version)
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176081 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 20:27
Lesley Weston  
in article dmdi0m$rer$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, Puck at
Kormos.4 [at] osu.edu wrote on 27/11/2005 4:11 PM:

> Rgemini wrote:
>> Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
>> mean "No", but politely?
>
> Sort of. It is considerred impolite in Japan to directly refuse a
> reasonable-seeming request,

As it is in Britain, or was thirty-one years ago. The corollary is that one
mustn't ask for anything unreasonable, since the other person will have to
agree to it. That was one of the adjustments I had to make on moving to
Canada - Canadians are, of course, nice, but we don't have that particular
custom, so people might well ask for something that the other person doesn't
want to do or give, since it's perfectly all right to refuse.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176082 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 20:29
Lesley Weston  
in article dmel4u$f9h$1 [at] groundhog.korenwolf.net, Flesh-eating Dragon at
dragon [at] netyp.com.au wrote on 28/11/2005 2:11 AM:

> Rgemini wrote:
>> Mart wrote:
>
>>> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
>>> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
>>> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning nothing
>> at all.
>
> One minor flaw in _Night Watch_, in my opinion, is that someone *else*
> uses Vetinari's highly idiomatic word for "excellent" (i.e.
> "capital"). Should be reserved strictly for Havelock Vetinari, in
> order to emphasise the uniqueness of his personality.

But it used to be a very common word among the sort of people that Vetinari
seems to belong to, even if it's archaic now.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176089 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 21:01
Graycat  
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:41:43 +1030, "Flesh-eating Dragon"
<dragon [at] netyp.com.au> jotted down:

>Rgemini wrote:
>> Mart wrote:
>
>>> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
>>> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
>>> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
>>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning nothing
>> at all.
>
>One minor flaw in _Night Watch_, in my opinion, is that someone *else*
>uses Vetinari's highly idiomatic word for "excellent" (i.e.
>"capital"). Should be reserved strictly for Havelock Vetinari, in
>order to emphasise the uniqueness of his personality.

Funny, I've never thought of it as particular to Vetinari.
"Momentarily" yes, and things like "I will certainly give it
due consideration" too, but not "capital".

I guess I just associate it with fancy speakers, and
over-excited cheerleader type people.

--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176097 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 20:57
Hendrik Schober  
Rgemini <royOMIT.ayresCAPITAL [at] dsl.LETTERSpipex.com> wrote:
> [...]
> Isn't it the Japanese who have lots of words for "Yes" that actually
> mean "No", but politely?

I remember getting a "I'm afraid I don't see
how that's possible" in the UK and needing a
long time to realize that the person actually
was saying "no".

Schobi

--
SpamTrap [at] gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

"The sarcasm is mightier than the sword."
Eric Jarvis
Re: [R] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176139 ] Di, 29 November 2005 07:00
aqusenet  
Flesh-eating Dragon <dragon [at] netyp.com.au> wrote:

> Rgemini wrote:
> > Mart wrote:
>
> >> Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
> >> city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> >> politics. They can come in handy everyday!
> >>
> > <snip>
> >
> > I've always liked the reply "Indeed". Simple, agreeable, but meaning nothing
> > at all.
>
> One minor flaw in _Night Watch_, in my opinion, is that someone *else*
> uses Vetinari's highly idiomatic word for "excellent" (i.e.
> "capital"). Should be reserved strictly for Havelock Vetinari, in
> order to emphasise the uniqueness of his personality.

A capital idea.

No, wait, hang on, there's a logical flaw there, isn't there...
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176160 ] Di, 29 November 2005 13:42
cudddy  
Depends on the definition, surely, of 'capital'? Or even, 'yes', and
'ok'?
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176195 ] Di, 29 November 2005 19:50
The Roach  
gmarth [at] gmail.com shook the world by stating

> Groups kindly informs us that "Your message will be posted momentarily"
> every time we post. How oddly appropriate.

I always thought it had been a case of mis-translation, anyway. IIRC,
the interface was created in the Google subsidiary in Swutzerland, and
they could easily have intended to say "augenblicklich", which would me
more like 'immediately'...

--
yIn nI' yISIQ 'ej yIchep
The Roach
(www.roachware.de -- elfwood.lysator.liu.se/~mja)
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176238 ] Di, 29 November 2005 23:35
rja.carnegie  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Lately, I've been pondering that you don't need to rule a fantasy-world
> >
> > city to make good use of Lord Vetinari's, so to speak, 'functional'
> > politics. They can come in handy everyday!
> >
> > The Patrician's relationships with the Guilds is an excellent way to
> > develop inter-personal skills, for example.

"I know where you live" is how he dealt with the Guild of Thieves. I'm
not sure that's /quite/ exemplary.

> > Often, the best way to
> > reply to an annoying request (especially from acquaintances whom
> > you don't meet frequently) is an unconditional and enthusiastic
> > (the enthusiasm is important) "Yes!" followed by no action at all.
>
> I lived in a culture where that was quite common. It just irritates
> people around you who aren't following the custom.
>
> BTW, generally Vetinari doesn't lie so obviously... it would spoil his
> aura. He's more likely to say "I shall look at that directly.", leaving
> open the quesions of how he's going to look at it, when "directly" is,
> or even if "directly" is a reference to time, or to technique.

I'm reminded of the incident, early in Isaac Asimov's "Foundation"
series - was it the first story? - where two diplomats were subjected
to recording and analysis of their every public word. One turned out
basically to have announced an unequivocal intention to invade, and the
other had said nothing meaningful at all and the people he was talking
to did not notice. He had made supportive noises, but no promises.

> > As the Patrician always shows us, it's hard to complain to someone
> > who has happily agreed to comply with your every whim.

The present British Prime Minister has been accused of this.
Apparently he's a politician. Who'd suppose!

> > And, in any
> > case, people in general tend to forget this kind of thing quickly.
>
> Not important stuff.

That's how you know what is. That which, when you ignore it, doesn't
go away - or actually, that's a science-fiction author's definition of
reality (I think; Philip K. Dick specifically). In politics, what can
get done without you, you can probably afford to ignore, unless it's
action that you want a piece of.
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176240 ] Di, 29 November 2005 23:37
Puck  
The Roach wrote:
> the interface was created in the Google subsidiary in Swutzerland

Land of the Swutz?

--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): "I am that merry wanderer of the night",
indeed! "I am that
giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and limb,
more like." -Neil Gaiman
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176241 ] Di, 29 November 2005 23:39
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach rja.carnegie [at] excite.com:

>
> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>> Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>> > And, in any
>> > case, people in general tend to forget this kind of
>> > thing quickly.
>>
>> Not important stuff.
>
> That's how you know what is. That which, when you ignore
> it, doesn't go away - or actually, that's a science-fiction
> author's definition of reality (I think; Philip K. Dick
> specifically). In politics, what can get done without you,
> you can probably afford to ignore, unless it's action that
> you want a piece of.

Isn't that *Ridcully*'s technique for dealing with things?



--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Hooray, Hooray, it's a wonderful day
For I have found my cow!
-"Where's My Cow?" (original version)
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176301 ] Mi, 30 November 2005 04:08
rja.carnegie  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> Also Sprach rja.carnegie [at] excite.com:
>
> >
> > Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> >> Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > And, in any
> >> > case, people in general tend to forget this kind of
> >> > thing quickly.
> >>
> >> Not important stuff.
> >
> > That's how you know what is. That which, when you ignore
> > it, doesn't go away - or actually, that's a science-fiction
> > author's definition of reality (I think; Philip K. Dick
> > specifically). In politics, what can get done without you,
> > you can probably afford to ignore, unless it's action that
> > you want a piece of.
>
> Isn't that *Ridcully*'s technique for dealing with things?

Oh yes, I suppose so - although I'd put Bob the dinosaur from "Dilbert"
first. Come to think, he only explained it once - I think Bob and Asok
were in charge of dealing with Y2K or something and that was Bob's
strategy. Then they were swept out of the cubicle by a company
reorganisation, as I recall.

Re the Swutz language - I seem to recall "sofort" but perhaps it has
different connotations. For me these include Sellars and Yeatman's
_And Now All This_, I think, or possibly _Garden Rubbish_ which I
believe wandered off towards the end, discussing recreational hiking
and a German camping-stove with incompletely translated manual - this
is like 80 years ago or something - brand name "Alsbald" and after a
great deal of fiddling around with little taps and pressure pumps, one
applies the flame and it "wird sofort explodieren".

Re "Capital", despite reading Shelock Holmes I associate it with
Gilbert & Sullivan - I believe the Duke of Plaza-Toro uses it on the
title characters in _The Gondoliers_ while teaching them to dance in
courtly fashion, if I haven't translated the scene from a different
show altogether.
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #176307 ] Mi, 30 November 2005 05:13
Puck  
rja.carnegie [at] excite.com wrote:
>>> That's how you know what is. That which, when you ignore
>>> it, doesn't go away - or actually, that's a science-fiction
>>> author's definition of reality (I think; Philip K. Dick
>>> specifically). In politics, what can get done without you,
>>> you can probably afford to ignore, unless it's action that
>>> you want a piece of.
>>
>> Isn't that *Ridcully*'s technique for dealing with things?
>
> Oh yes, I suppose so - although I'd put Bob the dinosaur from
> "Dilbert" first. Come to think, he only explained it once - I think
> Bob and Asok were in charge of dealing with Y2K or something and that
> was Bob's strategy. Then they were swept out of the cubicle by a
> company reorganisation, as I recall.

I do recall that particular strip, but there have been plenty of Dilbert
strips (It's my second fave, just after Doonesbury) that have dealt with the
idea that ignoring business problems makes them go away. I think there was
even one where the PHB (Pointy Haired Boss to non-Dilbert readers) instructs
his employees to only pretend to work until the next reorg so that their
budget wouldn't be cut because they didn't use all of it.

--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): "I am that merry wanderer of the night",
indeed! "I am that
giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and limb,
more like." -Neil Gaiman
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177584 ] Mi, 30 November 2005 12:45
Rgemini  
rja.carnegie [at] excite.com wrote:
<snip>
> Re "Capital", despite reading Shelock Holmes I associate it with
> Gilbert & Sullivan - I believe the Duke of Plaza-Toro uses it on the
> title characters in _The Gondoliers_ while teaching them to dance in
> courtly fashion, if I haven't translated the scene from a different
> show altogether.
>

Got it in one, sir -

#Capital both, capital both - that's it nicely! That is the style of
thing precisely!#

Rgemini
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177718 ] Mi, 30 November 2005 21:55
alec  
In article <dmj8t2$j99$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Kormos.4
[at] osu.edu says...

> I do recall that particular strip, but there have been plenty of Dilbert
> strips (It's my second fave, just after Doonesbury) that have dealt with the
> idea that ignoring business problems makes them go away. I think there was
> even one where the PHB (Pointy Haired Boss to non-Dilbert readers) instructs
> his employees to only pretend to work until the next reorg so that their
> budget wouldn't be cut because they didn't use all of it.

I hope you don't think that is any way fictional. It is very far from
unknown for people to create work in order to use up resources because
next year's budget is based on this year's expenditure. At a previous
company we were called up between Xmas and New Year (the time when
nearly everybody is out) by a customer (an arm of government) frantic to
spend his budget before the year end so that the next years budget was
not cut. It really happens. (We invented a support contract and a
monthly newsletter to help him with his financial embarrassment).

--
[at] lec ©awley
http://www.livejournal.com/~randombler
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177730 ] Mi, 30 November 2005 22:58
Puck  
Alec Cawley wrote:
> I hope you don't think that is any way fictional. It is very far from
> unknown for people to create work in order to use up resources because
> next year's budget is based on this year's expenditure. At a previous
> company we were called up between Xmas and New Year (the time when
> nearly everybody is out) by a customer (an arm of government) frantic
> to spend his budget before the year end so that the next years budget
> was not cut. It really happens. (We invented a support contract and a
> monthly newsletter to help him with his financial embarrassment).

I would have just sent him a nice catalog full of stuff I wouldn't mind
being given. It *was* the holidays afterall ;)

--
Puck (onstage): I am that merry wanderer of the night!
Peaseblossom (in audience): "I am that merry wanderer of the night",
indeed! "I am that
giggling-dangerous-totally-bloody-psychotic-menace-to-life and limb,
more like." -Neil Gaiman
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177775 ] Do, 01 Dezember 2005 06:48
Lesley Weston  
in article MPG.1df8220c71dea82a9899ee [at] news.individual.net, Alec Cawley at
alec [at] spamspam.co.uk wrote on 30/11/2005 12:55 PM:

> In article <dmj8t2$j99$1 [at] charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Kormos.4
> [at] osu.edu says...
>
>> I do recall that particular strip, but there have been plenty of Dilbert
>> strips (It's my second fave, just after Doonesbury) that have dealt with the
>> idea that ignoring business problems makes them go away. I think there was
>> even one where the PHB (Pointy Haired Boss to non-Dilbert readers) instructs
>> his employees to only pretend to work until the next reorg so that their
>> budget wouldn't be cut because they didn't use all of it.
>
> I hope you don't think that is any way fictional. It is very far from
> unknown for people to create work in order to use up resources because
> next year's budget is based on this year's expenditure. At a previous
> company we were called up between Xmas and New Year (the time when
> nearly everybody is out) by a customer (an arm of government) frantic to
> spend his budget before the year end so that the next years budget was
> not cut. It really happens. (We invented a support contract and a
> monthly newsletter to help him with his financial embarrassment).

It happens a lot in universities, too, though it usually takes the form of
buying expensive new toys rather than inventing work.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177809 ] Do, 01 Dezember 2005 14:16
naomi  
"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971DE6893319daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4...
> Also Sprach rja.carnegie [at] excite.com:
>
> >
> > Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> >> Mart <gmarth [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > And, in any
> >> > case, people in general tend to forget this kind of
> >> > thing quickly.
> >>
> >> Not important stuff.
> >
> > That's how you know what is. That which, when you ignore
> > it, doesn't go away - or actually, that's a science-fiction
> > author's definition of reality (I think; Philip K. Dick
> > specifically). In politics, what can get done without you,
> > you can probably afford to ignore, unless it's action that
> > you want a piece of.
>
> Isn't that *Ridcully*'s technique for dealing with things?
>
>
>
> --
> Dave

Also Vimeses?

n
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177818 ] Do, 01 Dezember 2005 14:43
Arthur Hagen  
naomi <someone [at] somewhere.com> wrote:
> "Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns971DE6893319daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4...
>> Also Sprach rja.carnegie [at] excite.com:
>>
>>> That's how you know what is. That which, when you ignore
>>> it, doesn't go away - or actually, that's a science-fiction
>>> author's definition of reality (I think; Philip K. Dick
>>> specifically). In politics, what can get done without you,
>>> you can probably afford to ignore, unless it's action that
>>> you want a piece of.
>>
>> Isn't that *Ridcully*'s technique for dealing with things?
>
> Also Vimeses?

More Vimes than Ridcully, I should think. Ridcully is more likely to
tell the bursar to deal with the problem if it can't be blasted with a
grade seven fireball, while Vimes ignores it until Carrot either does it
for him or tricks him into doing it.
There's also the Rincewind approach[1]: Don't count on it going away --
run!

[1]: Or, in his case, retreat.

Regards,
--
*Art
Re: [I] Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177940 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 02:46
Flesh-eating Dragon  
Alec Cawley wrote:

> I hope you don't think that is any way fictional. It is very far from
> unknown for people to create work in order to use up resources because
> next year's budget is based on this year's expenditure.

You'd think even the dimmest of management and government types would
come up with a better solution, wouldn't you? Even a _slightly_ better
solution, such as basing budget on _average_ expenditure over the
last n years, would be, um, slightly better.

I have, on cassette tape, the episode of _The Men from the Ministry_
which deals with this topic. Very nicely, too.

Adrian.
Re: [R] Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177964 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 11:20
Flesh-eating Dragon  
E.S. wrote:
> Flesh-eating Dragon wrote:

>> One minor flaw in _Night Watch_, in my opinion, is that someone *else*
>> uses Vetinari's highly idiomatic word for "excellent" (i.e.
>> "capital"). Should be reserved strictly for Havelock Vetinari, in
>> order to emphasise the uniqueness of his personality.
>
> Isn't "capital"* a word associated with upper class Brits? I think
> Sherlock Holmes used it - at least in the BBC television series.
>
> *In the meaning of "excellent"...

Just out of interest, did he (or anyone else you can think of who is
not now and hasn't ever been a Patrician of Ankh-Morpork) use it as a
single-word sentence? Just "Capital." all by itself, as Vetinari often
does?

My father is the only person I know who uses - and this habitually -
the word "ordinary" in the sense of "substandard". I don't know where
he got that from.

Adrian.
Re: [R] Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #177973 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 12:36
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Flesh-eating Dragon:

> E.S. wrote:

>> Isn't "capital"* a word associated with upper class Brits?
>> I think Sherlock Holmes used it - at least in the BBC
>> television series.
>>
>> *In the meaning of "excellent"...
>
> Just out of interest, did he (or anyone else you can think
> of who is not now and hasn't ever been a Patrician of
> Ankh-Morpork) use it as a single-word sentence? Just
> "Capital." all by itself, as Vetinari often does?

Thanks to Google, and a source that's out of copyright:

"Well, well, let us see how he gets on," said my friend
imperturbably. For a few minutes he gazed through my field-
glass. "Capital! An excellent start!" he cried suddenly.

-Silver Blaze.

And he's not the only one, even in the stories:

"How do you prove that?"
"Because the candle was not guttered."
"Capital!" cried the inspector. "Capital!"

-The Adventure of the Dancing Men.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Hooray, Hooray, it's a wonderful day
For I have found my cow!
-"Where's My Cow?" (original version)
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #178398 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 15:44
eero.suoranta  
Flesh-eating Dragon wrote:

> My father is the only person I know who uses - and this habitually -
> the word "ordinary" in the sense of "substandard". I don't know where
> he got that from.

I got a friend who's quite, but not very, good at English. He assumed
"extra-ordinary" meant "extremely ordinary".
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #178403 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 16:42
Lister  
On 2 Dec 2005 06:44:54 -0800, "E.S." <eero.suoranta [at] jtoy.inet.fi>
wrote:

>
>Flesh-eating Dragon wrote:
>
>> My father is the only person I know who uses - and this habitually -
>> the word "ordinary" in the sense of "substandard". I don't know where
>> he got that from.
>
>I got a friend who's quite, but not very, good at English. He assumed
>"extra-ordinary" meant "extremely ordinary".


He's being too logical.
Re: [R] Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #178439 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 20:40
alec  
In article <dmp78e$k03$1 [at] groundhog.korenwolf.net>, dragon [at] netyp.com.au
says...

> Just out of interest, did he (or anyone else you can think of who is
> not now and hasn't ever been a Patrician of Ankh-Morpork) use it as a
> single-word sentence? Just "Capital." all by itself, as Vetinari often
> does?

ISTR it being used by senior officers in the Hornblower books -
including HH himself when he became senior and was in the company of
junior officers.


--
[at] lec ©awley
http://www.livejournal.com/~randombler
Re: Our inner Vetinari, exposed [message #178440 ] Fr, 02 Dezember 2005 20:42
X Kyle M Thompson  
On 2005-12-02 14:44:54 +0000, "E.S." <eero.suoranta [at] jtoy.inet.fi> said:
> Flesh-eating Dragon wrote:
>
>> My father is the only person I know who uses - and this habitually -
>> the word "ordinary" in the sense of "substandard". I don't know where
>> he got that from.
>
> I got a friend who's quite, but not very, good at English. He assumed
> "extra-ordinary" meant "extremely ordinary".

That makes sense. "It is not just *ordinary* it is */extra/* *ordinary*"

However, since when do English words' construction have to make sense?
--
I rang up a local building firm, 
I said, "I wanna skip outside my house." 
He said "I'm not stopping you."
Vorheriges Thema:Re: [I] Metaphors // was Afp welcome mail
Nächstes Thema:[I] Is Metcheck being funny, or just gone so!
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Do Mai 24 13:16:42 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,11772 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered